The Vatican Has Few Indulgences For You, Rudy!
But Ex-Mayor Says He ‘Won’t Get Into Debates With Pope’—Whew!
Rudy Giuliani has made it clear that he doesn’t “get into debates with the pope.”
The Roman Catholic Church, however, is already debating what to do with the likes of Mr. Giuliani.
Pope Benedict XVI and the bishops who run the Catholic Church have a longstanding practice of not directly commenting on the political candidates of any single country. But when presented with Mr. Giuliani’s position on abortion, American Cardinal Edmund Casimir Szoka, the president emeritus of the governatorate of Vatican City State, was clear.
“That’s not very acceptable to us,” said Cardinal Szoka in a phone interview with The Observer. “Because if he says, ‘Well, I’m personally opposed but I believe a woman should have a right to choose,’ well then, how can you be personally opposed? It’s a contradiction.”
Cardinal Walter Kasper, president of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity and a top Vatican official who is generally considered to have a more liberal outlook, also said in a separate interview that a Catholic politician holding positions like those of Mr. Giuliani—the former Mayor says that he is morally opposed to abortion but supports abortion rights—created a “contradiction.”
“To be pro-choice is directly against the fundamental Catholic position, and I don’t see how it could be possible,” said Cardinal Kasper, who is a member of the Roman Curia, the body that enforces the pope’s policies, shapes the doctrine and runs the government of the Holy See.
“It’s complicated,” he said. “Questions of conscience are always complicated. But if somebody wants to be in public life, as a Catholic, he should also state Catholic positions.” Next Page >
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Well done Rudy, getting into to any debate with the Roman Church is not a good thing. stick to your guns and dont let the Roman church bully you. You speak for all people of different religions and races and not just catholics. Rudy would be better off being excommunicated as catholisism is not compatable with Gods teachings in the bible. I dont have a problem with the Vatican voicing an opinion, but when they state that a catholic person in public life should push vatican dogma on the general public, they are stepping over the line. The Vatican states that they are considering what to with with Rudy ?. Lucky for Rudy that we don't still live in the dark ages otherwise it is clear what they would do to him. There would be a bonfire with him tied to a stake!
Can people stop it with all the anti-catholic bs!?!?! Geez, every time the Catholic church makes a statement everybody has to b**** about it, but yet when other groups give their own damn opinion, people just shut up about it. What about those damn Puritans who hung innocent people for believing they were witches, and the Evangelicals who condoned and supported slavery? Yeah, that's right, you non-catholic Christians also have a dirty history. Geez, it's not like the Catholic church is spitting on Giuliani and is holding a gun to his head, threatening him to change his policies. Only protestants are that zealous enough to spit on someone who doesn't agree with them, *ahem* Jerry Falwell & Pat Robertson. The Catholic church is stating that Giuliani should no longer be considered a Catholic if he cannot stay loyal to all the beliefs his church holds dearly. We Catholics believe that our own church is not some political party that is made up of members who hold SIMILAR beliefs but a church whose members all believe in the same things. No true Catholic would ever compromise his or her own beliefs just for sake of making everyone else happy. Like-wise, no TRUE American would never go against his country and side with terrorism, no TRUE Muslim would never believe that the Koran is full of s***, and no TRUE Jew would ever tell you that victims of the Holocaust deserved to be killed. If these people did do exactly what I stated they could do, the groups they are a part of would stop referring to them as either American, Muslim, or Jew. And you would probably agree with those groups for doing that. SO get off the Catholic Church's back, some of us Catholics are Americans also but you never hear us complain much when non-Catholics state their opinion. Also, if you agree with Giuliani that a person's faith is between him and his pastor, then you, me, and every single person should keep our noses our of it!!!
The Roman Catholic Church is debating what to do with the likes of Giuliani??? How about the likes of Ted Kennedy, Christopher Dodd, John Kerry, Joe Biden and a host of other pro-abortion Democrat politicians?
Oh silly me! I forgot. The Catholic Church is an arm of the Democrat Party.
I so have to agree with Minnesota Mary. There are so many pro-abortion, pro-homosexual marriage, pro-embryonic stem cell research Democrat Catholics. I find it quite amusing that the bishops have now found it in their hearts to speak out about Giuliani. I have not heard them say much, if anything, about Kennedy, Kerry, Dodd, Pelosi, etc., etc., etc. With a few exceptions, their allegiance is definitely to the Democrats, no matter how much they contradict Church teaching.
As a staunch Catholic, I will find it difficult to vote for Giuliani because of his liberal stand on the above issues. However, no matter who he runs against in the Democrat party, he is likely to be the lesser evil, and I like his stand on many other issues such as defense and economic issues.
Jakoval,
It's true that Puritans and Evangelicals have erred in their ways, but two thousand years of Catholic history is repleat with rape, murder, pillage and theft. The Bible tells us to be aware of deceivers. Rudy is an internationalist...another phoney Catholic like Schwarzenegger. They are socially liberal. Do you think Jesus was socially liberal? Catholic means universal and they are in the process of creating a universal church and with the spread of ecumenism they will tolerate all faiths in the future. How can a true representative of Christ (no matter the denomination) spread the gospel while dripping in gold and luxury? Jesus walked the Earth in rags and sandals and did not own a home but the Popes live like Caesar's of Rome. Why? The Catholic church is the oldest institution in existence today and why? Because it is the legacy of the Roman Empire which has never really perished. It's dormancy has been a secret of the Vatican and why does the Vatican have a seat at the UN? The Vatican is a global religious entity set to justify the Evil One in the future. Many Catholics don't even agree with the Pope on dogma...take John Kerry as one of many...claims to be Catholic but favors abortion. According to the 19th century Catholic edict...the Pope is infallible. How can you disagree with the Pope if you are a Catholic on such a fundamental issue? Is he the Vicar of Christ? Would a mortal disagree with Jesus face to face on a fundamental issue? The church used to call people that disagreed with them...heretics. Now if they donate enough money to the church they will just look the other way. That is so Phariseeical. When you live in luxury you don't need God. We are here to serve and we are to serve in Heaven as well. We are not here to be served. Jesus wasn't. And since Jesus didn't come to be served, why should man in his ridiculous audacity think he should be served? The Catholic church's main purpose is to usher in the Anti-Christ. Whether you agree or not is irrelevant. It will happen whether you like it or not. And all Protestant denominations are no better. They are Saducees. They speak out of one side of their mouth and judge out of the other. Gossip mongers. The only true believers are those living expressly by the word of God. Denominationalism is the work of the devil....there are saved people in all denominations I believe...but the faith had to be divided so in the end it could be reunified to coincide with the one-world agenda...the New Age. Jesus will not come to save churches. Each believer represents a pillar of the heavenly church. We are God's temple...not wood and brick. And those who relish in the world...priest or layman...you will rue the day when you meet God face to face...for you have taken his grace and served yourself. You vipers.
Hey everybody, do you really think that the Anti-Christ would desire to preserve our posterity; our future. The Catholic Church loves you it wants you to prosper and have children. It doesn't want you to be a murderer. It knows what is best for you because it is very wise. It is the reason we have western civilization; colleges; hospitols; etc... It demands that fathers don't abandon their responsibilities. If everybody listened to the Catholic Church and Her great and beutiful teachings we would live in a world of love and laughter, but because we are not willing to be converted and live in a way that deserves respect we have many social problems and countless people who are lost and depressed.
The Catholic Church knows what philosophies are life giving and productive and which ones are destructive and sources of death. When the Catholic Church hears a proclaimed member of Herself (Catholic Church) professing a destructive behavior, or planning on using his God given power and authority to allow others to partake in destructive and violent act She (the Church) is obliged to tell the whole world that this person is not of Her. This person is of the world and advocating destruction and hatred and that is all that his philosophies are going to bring to the world.
The Vatican would have never said anything if Rudy G did not "claim" that he is Catholic. Rudy Gulliani would be classified as a So-called-Catholic. The Vatican has every right to, call to task, one of the Catholic Church Family members about what the Authentic Catholic Teaching is in every aspect of life. Especially, the teaching on protecting the innocent. As we all know, you do not have to have any religion to know that abortion is killing an innocent baby in the Mother's womb. It is a human thing!
I would like to leave Rudy Gulliani and the rest of the world with the following message and I quote
"As the populations of the Western world age, we will see that the generation of parents that aborted their own children, will be euthanized by the children who survived"
(Sean Cardinal O'Malley, O.F.M.)
Mr. O'Malley,
Where is Bernard Law these days? Still enjoying the perks of the Roman Curia? Why would the Pope reassign a disgraced cardinal to Rome? Law knowingly facilitated the molestation of many children. What would Jesus have done? Were any of Jesus' apostles child molestors? Did any of the apostles facilitate the molestation of children in their congregations? Before the Vatican judges anybody else living in the world, they should first clean up their own house. Look at the last two thousand years of world history and tell me of all the decades when the Catholic church has behaved abhorrently. How much is the church worth these days? How many starving children are there in the world? Why should the Pope have a gold toothbrush, lavish surroundings and motorcades when there are hungry children in the world? Jesus walked everywhere, except on Passover when he rode in on a donkey, per adhering to scripture. Don't you think Jesus could have ridden horses or been carried around everywhere by angels? Why did he walk? Why did he not own a home or live in luxury? Why did his apostles live the same way? The apostles were the greatest followers of Christ and they all lived horrendously difficult lives and most died horrible deaths. I don't recall any popes ever living like that...let alone bishops and cardinals. And by the way, how is the two hundred million dollar solar powered church in Los Angeles doing? Are there no starving children in Los Angeles? Why are there liberal cardinals? What part of Jesus would you define as liberal? Do you call adherence to God's law a liberal ideology? The Vatican is full of pharisees. They crave power and prestige and live like royalty. Why do you need to go to Heaven? Do you expect to live like royalty in Heaven? The bible says we are to serve God in Heaven. If mortals who live like kings do not serve their subjects why would they serve God in Heaven? Jesus said the meek shall inherit the earth. What does that mean to you? Jesus told the rich man to give up all he had and follow Him. The Catholic church would do well to heed Jesus' words. You are leading many people astray and Jesus told specifically what would happen to those that led people away from Him. The Vatican has nothing in common with first century Christianity. The Second Vatican Council allowed for liberalism to infect the church, thereby allowing Satan to enter in. The Vatican is poised for world-integrated leadership and with its bent for ecumenism it will appease worldwide religion. You can deny it all you want. Benedict doesn't meet with the world's leaders for milk and cookies. I don't remember reading about Jesus being involved in "worldly affairs." He said render to Caesar what is Caesar's. Our kingdom is not of this world, but the pope sure does litigate well for the church's political and financial interests. The hypocrisy is obvious and apostasy is rampant. You aren't fooling the truly saved. And if you think Jesus is proud of His church's demise....He is not...He just knew it would happen.
TCB
It's heartening to know that Mr. Giuliani will not debate the Holy Father. No doubt, Mr. Guiliani was impressed by the lightening strike which disabled the sound system and TV air waves as he was about to say something stupid during the recent Republican Presidential candidates' debate. And besides, the College of Cardinals elects the Pope not the people of NYC and the USA. So debating skills are not required. But holiness is. Mr. Guiliani has a long way to go yet on the journey.
Is the "Communion Rail" the appropriate time and place for the Catholic Bishops and Priests to fight the battle against abortion? No, not if we heed the pastoral advice of His Emminence Theodore Cardinal McCarrick, former Archbishop of the Dioceses of Washington DC and Newark NJ. It's not and was not meant to be a line of demarcation for pro-life versus pro-abortion.
What happened to the pastoral ways and means used by Bishops like Fulton J. Sheen? Have our Catholic Bishops and Priests forgotton how to pastor? Is punishment their first and only option? These are not God's ways.
4000 babies are killed each and every day by abortions. It's sinful and shameful. An abomination. And against the Church and the Commandments. But the Bishops and Priests should do what they are supposed to do to change peoples' wrong ways. And that's pastor. And do it in the way that the Lord would have them do it. The right way. Not from the Communion Rail but from the Pulpit.