New Yorkers Find Philadelphia Freedom

Philly is a great day-trip from NYC, but I'd move to the Bronx or Jersey City before moving to the "City of Brotherly Love."

Artis
Harlem, NYC

I should clarify that I meant on average 1% of 1% a year... and I notice from perusing the graphic that the source of the data not surprisingly enough comes from Corcoran, Prudential, and the the city's [Philadelphia's] controller.

The real issue is not 8,000 who left for Philly. It's the economic condition of the 8,000 who left. I'll be they were largely middle to upper middle class workers and families. Second, that if you look over that same period, you'll see that same pattern of people leaving NY for many other cities. The barbell continues of NYC increasingly becoming a city of the rich who subsidize and the lower income who are subsidized.

I grew up outside of Philly and couldn't wait til I graduated high school and could move to NYC. I love NYC but sometimes I go back to Philadelphia and think it's cute now, and that I could probably have a nicer life there. I mean, there's not really any neighborhoods left in New York where a middle class person can afford to live anymore that isn't at least an hour commute to my job in Manhattan. It's getting tempting.

I'd move to Philly in a heartbeat. At least the people down there are nicer than in this shithole.......

Yes it is true, the rich have discovered NY and soon it will be only the rich who live there too. I moved to Philly 14 years ago because NY was becoming too expensive. I have a modest house to live in and can afford to eat too. With all the gentrification, it will be the rich who have all the nice places to live and the rest of t he population moved into rich built slums off island. Wake up and smell the coffee. NY is the land of middle class and up anything/anyone less than that is moved farther and farther away. Read the writing on the walls and say good bye to summers on Coney Island beach.

"in a neighborhood safer than bushwick" Right...check the murder rate, before you type. Nutter may have just been elected, but people are still getting killed at a rate of more bodies than days in Philly. I'd rather be mugged than dead.

The tax abatement building boom was primarily in Center City and so you stop with the hyped up murder numbers. Yeah their a lot of murders in the city at large but most of them are in West Philly. Their is little crime in center city and i think that is where New Yorkers would want to setup shop if they moved.

You're right on the traffic and diversity issues, The city seems to be either country black or union worker white, not much in between. Sorta like Brooklyn 25 years ago when people started to look at Fort Green and Clinton Hill (To me in my heart still Flatbush). But differenrt strokes for different folks, My Life is in aviation so I dont need ecclectic dining or 5 dollar coffees. But it always amazed me that a city so percieved to me deviod of culture could produce some of thecountry's best talents. Back in my days Salsoul Orchestra, MFSB were king, one would think a fusion of club, classical, latin, fuck, soul music would happen in NY. No It happened in Philadelphia, Patti Labelle, Lolita Holloway, Fat larry's Band all come to mind.

Philadelphia is the cradle of our country and will be the cradle of the nations renaissance before you know it.

Ironic you left Philly for Bklyn, I left Bklyn for Philly ( See ya on the Chinatown Bus)

Give me a break. How many people leave Philadelphia for New York every year, or consider Philly, only to decide against it in favor of the Big Apple, I wonder.

Let me save would-be Philadelphians some trouble: Real estate is so cheap because the city is a dump, SEPTA is a joke, everything cool is happening in NY, somebody is murdered about once every 23 hrs, everything closes at like 10pm, the state-run liquor stores are terrible, and there are no jobs unless you're a nurse or college professor or bike messenger.

Start spreading the news . . .

I guess that explains all the condo's that are being built in Philly at this time, Residence At The Ritz Carlton, Murono, Water Front Square, Trump Tower, and all the developement in Olde City and Northern Liberties.

I was in Philly over the Xmas Holidays, and all I saw during my drive was NY Tags everywhere and the streets were crowded at 8 PM at night, wall to wall people, so I don't see where the city is closed down when the sidewalks were filled with people.

I am originally Philly and now have been living in the Los Angeles Metro area for 13 years. I really only learned to appreciate my city once I left. Philly is way better than the NYC in terms of family-oriented middle class living. True the NYC is the epitome of Metropolis and urban dynamism--it can't be matched. Yet Philly is much cheaper, less congested, a lively historical, cultural and arts scene--not to mention the largest city-owned park in the nation, Fairmount Park; don't let some of the dilapidated neighborhoods fool you. It's ideally situated and not stuck up in near New England or the mid-Atlantic south either, but right in the middle. and of course Kobe Bryant, Patti Labelle, Bill Cosby, Jill Scott, Musiq Soulchild, the Roots, Will Smith, Eve etc..all boast Philly as home!!!

I think articles like these really take thing's out of proportion. What most of you are not taking into effect is that Philadelphia is a very dangerous city. Sure, a mediocre ''row home'' may go for 150 thousand, but they are no where near as kept as in New York. The reason why? New York's an affluent place. People invest into there homes more. Half of the homes in Philadelphia that are owned are purely out of inheritance and the majority of them don't keep them up. In fact, builder's throughout the city have payed 120% value to these people to knock them down and build better things.

Philadelphia has more homicides than days in a year, even though it has a similar population to the Bronx. New York City is one of the safest city's on earth. It's not even because New York City has an incredible amount of police officers, because Philadelphia has a higher ratio of cop to person. Plus, Philadelphia wisely forces their cop's to reside within city boundaries. New York City is safe because of it's affluence and education. I don't want to say this to insult anyone, but New York City is practically suburban paradise. No, not environmentally. Not the way everything looks. But the mentality of the people. No, they're not ''tough.'' Not just people from all over America, but people from all over the world move into New York City. Not just Manhattan though. They've went to Brooklyn and will make there way across New York City.

Why? Because New York's element appeals. Does Philadelphia? It's alright, but New York has prestige. It's cost a lot, but you make a lot. In life and capitalism, you pay for what you get. If anyone moved to Philadelphia, I hope they don't have kid's. Otherwise, you'll be paying a lot for private school. The city is so unsafe you'll be physically driving your kid's to school, even though you may not need a car to live there.

Philadelphia is one of the most poverty struck cities in this country. Even worse is Camden next door. 73 percent of resident's in Philadelphia's children qualify for reduced lunch. The bottom line is New York City is a place that actually has grown. They continue to grow, even if it's not a whole lot. Philadelphia is a city that really isn't known for immigration, because what immigrant would to move there? It seems like the only spots they move are places like Northeast Philadelphia that actually aren't that bad.

I want all of you to look at this for me. I know Wikipedia's not a good resource, but I personally checked through the Census to make sure all the number's were right. Philadelphia's decreased ever since the 1960's. If there's one state that's known for leaving, it's Pennsylvania. In the 50's, 60's and 70's, only one county grew in population, even after immigration and the baby boom.

The main reason why is because of the scarcity of jobs, crime, the shutting down of factories and because people just don't want to stay. It's like that in Upstate New York too. In between 00' and 05', NYC grew 1.7%. Upstate New York grew 1.7%. Most people would consider that insane considering how much space Upstate has to accomodate to it's population.

Philadelphia used to have over 2 million people in 1950. Now they got about 1.5 million. America was at 151 million in 1950. In 2007, they grew to 302 million. So America doubled over that 57 year span. While saying Philadelphia had moderate immigration to America (although low for a major city), it'd technically mean Philadelphia should have over 4 million people. Over the past 57+ years though, what would have created at least 2.5 million people left.

Just speaking on what's happened in between 00' and 06' though? The city has lost 4.6% of it's population. So now people would insinuate that even more people would have to leave to ''join the club'' of a place where no one wants to live? That seems like it'd make sense, wouldn't it? Listen, eight thousand people aren't a lot of people. The truth is New York City has a lot of people. If they had the population of Philadelphia, only about 2 thousand people would have done the move.

I don't see a whole lot of emphasis being placed on those from Philadelphia who move to New York though. It's probably because journalists like yourself seem to believe the world revolves around New York. I'm from New York and I wouldn't even tell you that's true. Even if it does hold much of it's orbit, it doesn't mean that's expanded onto other places. Especially rugged out criminally infested cities.

By percentage, I guarantee more people have moved from Philadelphia and other major cities into New York than visa versa because of New York's desirability. The elite go to New York. Who leaves? Usually old people retiring to Florida.

The thing that'll supply most movers will always be the 25-34 age bracket and 65+. Usually, for the elderly it's places like Florida, Arizona and New Mexico. Same thing usually applies to young American's, but you'll see people sprinkle out throughout America. No specific place.

The difference between New Yorkers and Philadelphians is that New Yorker's are more happy. The reason why people leave that city is because it's so tapped out, but they always manage to find room. With Philadelphia, most of their population would leave if they could, but most can't even do that. For the young affluence, they do their best to get out of the city and go as far away as possible. Philadelphia doesn't find room for people because they're also tapped out and no one wants to stay. Plus, the geography is mush. I've never seen a city that's suburbs are worth 2 to 3 times the price of them.

The thing that both New Yorker's and Philadelphians share in common is that when they go, they go far away. There metropolitan areas are just as tapped out as they were. Most were populated as long as they were. Most of North and even parts of Central Jersey are much more expensive than NY if you accumulate the real estate taxes, the car insurance and extra commuter taxes NYC charges out of state residents for working in their city. Philadelphia doesn't do that because they're happy to see people even being willing to come there. In fact, it wouldn't suprise me if there's a higher ratio of those who leave Philadelphia to go to New Jersey for work.

Worse and more unhappy than both New York and Philadelphia is what's in between, New Jersey. Since 06', New Jersey's been hit as hard as it's going to get when it comes to this housing crisis. Most of New York doesn't have to worry about it because most rent. New Jersey has only grown by 0.2% in the last two years, even though America's grown 1%. New York City grew 0.35%. If you counted there accelerated immigration, they both probably should have grown 1.3%.

I heard someone say they'd move to Jersey City? Do you have any idea of how expensive that is? Or Brooklyn? Actually, Jersey City's probably more expensive. The dependance on a car would be higher, the insurance would burden you and if you work in Manhattan, that lovely commuter tax will be an enemy of your's. It doesn't hit middle class people as hard because you can write a lot of it off, but if you're upper middle class to wealthy you know what I'm talking about. If you live in Harlem though, both Brooklyn and Jersey City are far more expensive than those two places. Especially Jersey City and especially downtown Brooklyn. Especially Brooklyn Heights and Park Slope.

People need to get off this train of believing in New York's economic supremacy. It may be applicable to itself, but it's irrelevant to it's own suburbs. The only borough in New York City that's more expensive than North Jersey is Manhattan. And even parts of Manhattan aren't. The only other part of NYC that may be more expensive than most areas is downtown Brooklyn. Besides that, New Jersey, Nassau Co. and Connecticut are all more expensive. Especially real estate tax wise, which gets re-distributed directly back into the education system. The low taxes those who reside in NYC pay is the same reason why the Board of Ed can only graduate 45 percent of it's kids. That's pretty sad considering the affluence of New York City. People who come it to a European city would have to gasp once that number jumps into their ears.

Jersey City though? That city went from about 300 thousand to like 240 thousand. That means people have actually left, even after extreme immigration. Jersey City is one of the most diverse city's you'll even find. The truth is whether you're from New York, New Jersey or Philadelphia, there's no room near you to ''grow.'' All of it's decreasing. In New Jersey, it's more associated with the inability or non-want to own because of the prices and taxes. 50 percent of people in NJ have said they'd leave if it was rationally possible. Most of these people all go to the same spots. In the 50's, 60's and 70's, Israel was a hot spot for people in all three of these places because many Jews had left America from these areas. You'll see immigration come less when the economy's sluggish. Old people won't be able to sell there homes or apartments as easily because of how hard it'll be for younger people to get mortgages. In NJ particularly, you very rarely see new homes go up. Some townhouses. Not many apartment buildings. It's because no one wants to stay.

Doesn't it say something? It says all these places are tapped out. There's no more room. What is life going to be like that beer commercial where the Indian lady gives the beer to the Mexican guy who gives it to the room with the hairy guy in the spas? Or is it going to be pass the flag? No. People want nothing to do with Philadelphia because of it's filth and crime. Why buy something that'll decrease in value? You'd be lucky if it stayed the same. There's no demand because no one has money there. You'd loss money through the insurance you pay, which is probably high for the level of crime.

And sure, you could commute from Philadelphia to New York, but that's a long ride. It's also expensive. It'd be too time consuming. You'd expect people to leave their well paying job's in New York to go to Philadelphia? That won't happen. For those who got potential in Philadelphia, you'll still see more moving into NYC than you would from NY going to Philly. Don't mean to sound rude, but New Yorker's do have higher standards than that. It's all about money. Philadelphia's a horrible investment and a horrible place to raise a family. Even for a yuppie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_City#Downtown_Jersey_City

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Philadelphia

I used to live in New York. I hated Philly at first and longed to return to New York. Now when I go to New York it seems like a giant suburb or theme park. It is safer than ever before. Philly is generally safe but is much more like how New York used to be, which is to say a city. I never thought I'd say it, but Philly is better: people don't think they're special just because they live here, and you can actually live here, do the things that New Yorkers only do in the movies because in real life it would be impossible (to live in huge beautiful apartments, go out to eat at great restaurants, theater, etc).

One thing hasn't changed about New Yorkers: they get crazy mean when someone chooses to go over the wall. It brings a moment of dangerous sanity: why am I living here? Is it nuts to be living like a desperate cockroach pretending to enjoy slamming up against millions of people and sharing an apartment with 15 others, like an illegal alien, just so I can say I live in New York?

If it were all that great, people would yawn at an article like this. In fact, there are no articles about Philadelphians moving to New York because who the hell cares if they do. It's their business. And that's how people roll in the city of brotherly love.

I do completely agree that it feels like a ''giant suburb.'' Almost like Six Flags as you put it. New York City is as affluent as it's going to come. It's also as safe as it's going to get. You know what I think is funny? People thought it was really that bad in the late 80's/early 90's. For New York's standards, it was. For American cities, it still was average. It's like the New York media likes to believe in it's own little stories they make or juice up. Go in Cleveland. Ask people what the ''Crown Heights riots'' were. They wouldn't even know where Crown Heights is. What goes on in New York generally stays in New York and it's area. Most people in America even back than would tell you it wasn't that bad. You know what's even sadder? If you asked people in New York what do you think of the safety level of your city? They'd say it's alright. It's like everyone has it triggered into their mind that New York is supposed to be a ''tough'' place and that's why there's so many cops. Well, part of the reason why there's such little crime for it's population is because of the size of the NYPD. In fact, they don't even need as many cop's anymore.

Bloomberg has done a good job running trash out of New York. I don't know if anyone knows or remembers him, but Mo Vaughn bought lots of former lower-income/public housing buildings in downtown Brooklyn. He turned it around by knocking them down and building really nice apartments that start out at 2 grand a month now. This kind of thing has happened all over New York. New York's got the money and the demand to do this. Philadelphia doesn't.

''Philly is generally safe ''

Are you insane? Did 400+ homicides last year not convince you that Philadelphia's a hell hole? Why did the city lose 4.6% of it's population? Trust me, it hasn't been that commercialized in that short period of time. You say it's a good city? Why does it have such low immigration compared to other cities? Maybe you live in a more isolated part of the city like somewhere in Northeast, Center City or all the way up in Northwest that may as well be Bucks or Montgomery counties. That's not Philadelphia. The bulk of Philadelphia's population is trash. Do you know how sad Philadelphia is? I guarantee I could find some random white bigot who'd even admit you're better off being black in New York than white in Philly. This person was trying to make excuses for why a lot of white people in Kensington have bad teeth. It's like they hold onto the south's magnetic force.

It's one thing if you want to think Philly's ok or crazily ''safe'', but you can't hold it up to the same bar as New York. Why is Philly better? Because you can't afford New York? That's not a fair comparison. For as bad as the Board of Ed is, the Philly education system's worse. You know what the sad thing is? If you or anyone who you moved with randomly got mugged, shot or attacked, you can't blame anyone. You can't expect sympathy. No one would feel bad for you. You know why? Because you moved into a war zone. If you want to get out of New York for it's expense, Philly is not the spot. That's why Florida, Arizona, Colorado and a bunch of other places exist.

Actually, there are plenty of thing's about people who move from Philly to New York. On this web-site? No, this is a New York journalist's paper. The world revolves around New York to them. I was just on MySpace the other day and I saw a group about Philadelphians who moved to New York. It was like an Eagles fans club too. It was actually for people all over the Philly area who said they're ''unfortunately'' trapped in New York. There partial resentment probably is due to expense.

You say you'd be living like an illegal alien? Are you referring to Mid-Town Manhattan? Where are you from in NYC? Are you originally from NYC or did you move there from somewhere else in this country? With Manhattan, yeah it costs like 35 hundred a month just to live in an alright one bed room there, but that's why you're not supposed to live there alone. You split it with someone else. In Queens, you can probably rent out a decent $650 thousand dollar home on $2,500. In Brooklyn which may as well be Manhattan sometimes, you can get a really nice apartment in the area of $1,900 to $2,500 depending on where you want to live.

Yawn? That's exactly what people have done. The only guy's who've written on this thread since April 22nd are you and me. Please explain to me what your rationing for why Philly lost 4.6% of it's population in seven years and why New York's still growing.