No Place for a Horse-Carriage Driver
In a small theater on East Third St. at around 8:00 p.m. on Sept. 26, you wouldn’t have wanted to be a carriage-horse driver.
It was a benefit screening of Blinders: The Truth Behind the Tradition, which documents the alleged abuses of the horses that ferry tourists around Central Park in hansom cabs. Before the film had even started, organizers ejected a driver for threatening to disrupt the event, and a sympathizer was thrown out when he showed his pro-carriage colors during the question-and-answer session afterward.
But you wouldn’t have minded being city councilman and long-shot mayoral candidate Tony Avella, who has been making political hay out of the issue ever since the untimely death of Spotty the horse in 2006.
Playing to a crowd of several hundred adoring Eastsiders after the screening, the white-haired Councilman said, “Speaker Christine Quinn just goes along with what the mayor wants.”
He claimed that the rest of the Council simply doesn’t want to rock the boat. “They say, ‘Of course horses don’t belong on the streets of New York City.’ But Christine Quinn is blocking this bill.”
Avella does not have the equine-outrage vote to himself among the mayoral contenders. Comptroller and all-but-declared candidate Bill Thompson found in an audit last year that the industry supervision was unsatisfactory, telling the New York Times that “the agencies entrusted with oversight here have dropped the ball.”
And according to John Phillips, the 22-year-old president of the League of Humane Voters of New York City, the organization is in talks with the office of the current mayor to come up with an alternative to the carriages.
But meanwhile, only five of 51 council members have signed on to Avella’s proposed ban.
“It’s gaining traction in the sense that it’s being talked about,” said event underwriter Mary Max, admitting that the ban’s political progress is slow. “But what isn’t slow in politics?”
Max, wife of artist, animal rights activist, and tax fraudster Peter Max, compared the industry to “putting an 80-year-old man or woman into a labor camp.”
The audience was diverse.
In the ticket line, Al Streit, the leader of the pigeon-rights group Pigeon People, chatted with a woman who had just come from protesting the bank bailout on Wall Street and who was handing out fliers calling for the abolition of the Fed. There was a woman from the animal-rescue group Farm Sanctuary, as well as a smattering of people wearing power suits.
During the screening, the audience in the half-full theater chuckled at footage of overweight tourists raving about their carriage rides, gasped at graphic b-roll of downed horses, and made angry noises about the callousness of abusive drivers.
“These are the people that we’re dealing with,” said Phillips, who has headed the organization since graduating from Stuyvesant High School four years ago. “This is a tiny, insignificant group of people that are petty, and I could call them other names, but I won’t.”
During a Q&A session afterwards, audience members demanded to know why the carriage-horse lobby—representing all of 293 drivers—was so powerful in City Hall and in Albany. Avella took the chance to rail against campaign contributions and highly paid lobbyists.
The Q. and A. session quickly turned sour, with participating audience members arguing for more immediate action.
“It’s all preaching to the choir -- it’s all gobbledygook. It’s ‘if I get elected, if you get elected,’” protested one woman at the microphone. “Do you know how many times I’ve had to reinvent myself? Get a new job!”
Interrupting a succession of other women demanding action, a man got up to defend the carriage driver who had been thrown out before the screening. “Don’t be blinded by Blinders!” he shouted, as the audience booed and yelled.
“Let’s pummel him! Let’s attack him!” shrieked the woman at the other mic, who then started to get shouted at herself.
“Remove her too, if she’s going to act like this,” said Phillips from the front of the theater. Security forcibly removed the man, who continued to shout things about being a Columbia University graduate as he they propelled him up the stairs.
The removal cast something of a pall over the event, as one panelist commented, almost sadly, “We kind of missed an opportunity to understand where in the world he comes from.”
Smaller soapboxes surrounded Avella’s. One of those on LHV’s list of 31 approved city council contenders, civil rights attorney and “the only out vegan candidate” Yetta Kurland, described her district--the 3rd, comprising Hell’s Kitchen, Chelsea, and the West Village--as being “full of animal lovers.” One of her other priorities is “better dog runs for our puppy dogs.”
Singer Nellie McKay was also in attendance, flitting around in a yellow jacket and spotted blue dress. The waifish platinum blonde arrived and appeared to be snuggling with ubiquitous anti-gentrification activist Tom DeMott (the two have found common cause against Columbia University, she for the school’s research on animal subjects and he for its plans to expand north into West Harlem).
Also in attendance were Steve Nislick, CEO of Edison Properties, and Community Board 7 chair Mary Rosenthal.
One industry, at least, stands to benefit handsomely from Avella’s plan: bicycle-powered cabs. Outside the theater, three men claiming to be pedicab drivers had bought several copies of the DVD, and fulminated for their own reasons against the carriage drivers.
“I feel they should kill them all…they cut you off,” said Tony Montagne, 32, who said he came to the U.S. from Italy three and a half years ago and has been driving a pedicab ever since. He says he makes $2,000 in an average week, $225 of which he pays to rent his cab, and some of which he sends back to family in Italy.
“They should make them drive,” he said, baring his calf. “I got good muscle.”
Between 300 and 400 people. Film is beautifully crafted - almost like a legal case - hammering home all of the humane and safety issues. The accident and abuse witness testimonials are fascinating. My only complaint is that the film doesn't address the transport issue. People need to know how the hoses are deprived of food, water, rest and protection from the elements when stuffed in trailers and sent to Canada and Mexico to be slaughtered.
Between 300 and 400 people. Film is beautifully crafted - almost like a legal case - hammering home all of the humane and safety issues. The accident and abuse witness testimonials are fascinating. My only complaint is that the film doesn't address the transport issue. People need to know how the hoses are deprived of food, water, rest and protection from the elements when stuffed in trailers and sent to Canada and Mexico to be slaughtered.
Of course your horses go to slaughter. Do you really think that people who are following this issue believe that you pay for their retirement when you can earn money off of their corpses? Where are the hundreds and hundreds of these alleged retired carriage horses? Even drivers have admitted that the horses are slaughtered.
and some of us "humaniacs" have rescued some NYC carriage horses from the slaughterhouse. The poor old horses, with the telltale signs of poorly fitting tack. If they're not too emotionally disturbed from their lives between the shafts and the cramped stalls, they perk right up and learn to relax and trust people.
Of course your horses go to slaughter. Do you really think that people who are following this issue believe that you pay for their retirement when you can earn money off of their corpses? Where are the hundreds and hundreds of these alleged retired carriage horses? Even drivers have admitted that the horses are slaughtered.
and some of us "humaniacs" have rescued some NYC carriage horses from the slaughterhouse. The poor old horses, with the telltale signs of poorly fitting tack. If they're not too emotionally disturbed from their lives between the shafts and the cramped stalls, they perk right up and learn to relax and trust people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1H7Fervqwo
Joseph Cirnigliaro from Italian Communication and Entertainment Network Editorial. Same person escorted out of the Eastside screening of Blinders. He claimed to be a columbia grad of '78. Seems like a thug to me and in the background is Cornelius Bryne the owner of smoothie who died bleeding on the streets. Also Ian Mckeever who owns Shamrock and rents the building from the Dept of Ed. Yep the Dept of Ed.
Press conference on Sept 24th 2008 at City Hall Steps. Council member Tony Avella will force the bill to be hear and the public to speak. Finally democracy forced on Quinn's tyranny
Support Intro 658 to BAN NYC Horse Drawn Carriages and end the cruelty
Peeba76 is Abigail from Clinton Stable who spews all these lies to protect her corrupted and cruel industry. The irish voice is an one-sided industry that doesn't care about the cruelty of the horses. They believe they have to protect all Irish even the bad ones like Michael McMahon who is running for CD-13 Staten Island. Don't vote for him. His brother Thomas is the lobbyist for this industry. This is why Shamrock stables rents the building from Dept of Ed for below market rates. There is a lot of corrupted ties in this industry and the horses are the victims.
To all of you misinformed posters who "love the horses" and want to keep this "iconic tradition," please do some authentic research. Horses do not belong on the streets of New York City.
Flynn, ;) please stop trotting old out your "myths and facts" sheet. It is wrong on all counts, and listing it that way doesn't make it any more real.
Central Park Carriages and West Side Livery ... 37th and 38 Streets...will ya please re-measure that, and realize that yes...it is 2 miles ... and that's 4 miles a day in heavy traffic. jeez.
This is New York City, 21st century. let's get horses off the streets. Please.
Crooked politicians, entrenched industry, paid carriage industry lobbyists, what a miserable and misguided bunch. And THIS is what Mayor Bloomberg and the City Council want to protect?
Threatening a pub over a fund-raiser. Is there no justice?
Yes, Wow, there are questionable folks in New York City when the Dept of Ed is renting below market the building to house shamrock stables. Guess what, their lobbyist Thomas McMahon is the brother of council member michael mcMahon and the husband of Bloomberg deputy mayor. Something is real rotten in NYC. End the cruelty and support the ban
Carriage Industry folks here would have people believe that Elizabeth and all the rest of us animal rights folks have not seen with our own eyes how the horses are treated, therefore they invite us to the stables. We see with our own eyes every single day how the horses live, nose to tailpipe, enduring noises and traffic that they should never be amongst! We see them go to empty water troughs looking for water when there is none, and we see them standing in water when all the particular driver has to do is move them a foot or two! Not one of your stables, despite much needed improvements in a couple of them provides the horses with daily time in green pasture, not one of them. Horses need that, as do cows! The public also should not be fooled into believing suggestions and insinuations that animal rights people don't care about the jobs of carriage industry people. Of course we care! But hear this, and hear it good, this fight to save NYC Carriage Horses from suffering and being deprived of their most basic environmental needs has been going on for some 30 years! That's a lot more time than most people have to prepare to look for other work, or to have a backup when you know your job may one day be in jeopardy. But more importantly, Mr. Avella, who does have a heart will include in his Legislation provisions to help those in the Carriage Industry find employment! The lies are coming from the Carriage Industry, not the other way around.
How come no one has mentioned that having slow moving carriages on NYC streets with all the bad traffic is just CRAZY. Next time you are sitting in a taxi or car and you wondering why the traffic is so bad--look at the horse carriages.
If you like NY then sign the petition to ban these out dated crazy slow moving dirty carriages once and for all. If Bloomberg really cares about improving the quality of life, he would get rid of them. Send emails to Bloomberg telling him to get real.
why do the carriage horse industry insist on bashing people personally? There is no need. We know you hate that your industry is on the outs. It's always the same when people try to make a change for good, for humanity and a kinder planet for humans and animals. Focus on the issue if you must but stop using forums/blogs to post vitriolic hate messages.
www.blindersthemovie.com for the REAL story.
Why don’t the people of the horse drawn carriage industry try to get real jobs where you actually have to work for a living instead of exploiting horses by forcing them to do the work for you. You choose to force these horses to pull carriages through the high trafficked streets of New York City, there upon risking the lives of pedestrians and your horses. You expose your horses to extreme weather conditions. The only reputation your industry has is one that portrays cruelty and inhumane treatment of horses. You are not capable of treating these sentient beings with the care and compassion they deserve. This would mean allowing them to live as horses, free from your FORCED HAND.
As an advocate for animal rights and a supporter of Tony Avella and the Coalition to Ban Horse Drawn Carriages, it is evident that we care about your horses.
Councilman Tony Avella is a man of intelligence, class, and high morals and ethics. I am certain all of you in the horse carriage industry do not know what any of these words mean.
These comments are so sad to read. It is so clear from the coalition's position that this industry is over. Would you care about the owners of brothels losing their jobs in hard times? Would it matter that hard times had fallen on human traffikers when the economy was rough?? Listen to yourselves...pure insanity. The reality is that the only people who want this horse drawn carriage industry to continue are either people who know NOTHING about the reality of what goes on behind the scenes, or those who are currently running it and don't care how the horses are treated or how much money it takes to "grease some palms" and keep it going. Pathetic. New Yorkers, raise your damn heads out of your grind and do something about this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVWv6jR0kKw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRjg6851DrI
http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=/watch%3Fv%3DwGbTb1tOLKc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1H7Fervqwo
2 clips that show the carriage industry despictable tactics to hide the truth about the cruelty of this industry.
Also the blog of the carriage industry is full of false tales which is why he won't mention his name or stable. It is full of lieThe horse-drawn carriage industry uses threats, intimidation and violence. These videos of recent attacks on pedestrians speak for themselves. Youtube requires that you sign in and and verify your age b/c of the violence:s.
Posted
I wish the observer did a story on how this brutal carriage has terrorized us on the street because they want to maintain the status quo. They punctured our wheels, they call the cops on us to give us bogus summons, they chase us away from the hack line. They call me names like crackhead, homeless and wetback whenever they see me. This industry works above the law and I hope for the city sake and the horses' sake it is ban soon.
Pity the poor carriage horse drivers, who don't have to know anything (like know how to drive) or do anything (they're on videotape reading magazines while operating their vehicles [horse-drawn carriages]. On the other hand, to list a few facts: the horses are kept in completely inhumane conditions, in tiny stalls; are constantly standing on hard surfaces which are bad for their hoofs; have respiratory disease from working nose-to-tailpipe all day. Yeah, I'm a humaniac. A PROUD HUMANIAC. I care. Wish the same could be said about the carriage drivers. When I first took the NYS drivers test I failed because of driving too slowly. What the hell are these things doing in traffic? They're a hazard to humans! So do something for people you lazy creeps. Get a real job!
See the movie Blinders or order the DVD, it is an eye-opener. Below are some YouTube Clips of NYC horses in such dangerous traffic. It is a public safety issue for us and the horses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVFvg-lLHZo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oUPpWhbmtM
Thank you for writing this article. I am not afraid to put my real name on this (although I will probably get some anonymous nasty comments by the drivers who hide behind made up names) because I spoke with Tighe, the restaurant manager of O'Flaherty's ... and no one from the Voice interviewed me. This past Tuesday, September 16th, after telling our chairperson that he was canceling our fundraiser and why, I called Tighe to confirm it. When we originally met with Tighe, we told him about our organization and our goals. There would have been no reason for us to deceive him since we are proud of what we do and we wanted him to be very, very clear of our intentions. The name of our organization alone tells it all - so he knew exactly what we were all about - Coalition to Ban Horse-Drawn Carriages. He told us he supported us and hated to see the horses used this way also. We had conversations about this issue. The owner of the restaurant loves horses and keeps them in Ireland. They are opposed to the carriage industry. As a matter of fact, this has never, ever been an anti-Irish campaign although the carriage industry would like you to think it is. I am very proud of the fact that I am first generation Irish. My late mother would be ashamed and saddened if she could see how these people act and treat their horses – what thugs they really are … and how they think they are so entitled that they can bully people into doing what they what. We also have much support from Irish Americans in this country including Fiona Walsh, stand up comic who will be our MC. She was wonderful recently in her one-person show at 1st Irish. And we have the support of two Irish animal rights/protection organizations in Ireland. No we are anything but anti-Irish. After all - I certainly do not hate myself...or my relatives in the old country.:-) But there are Irish and there are Irish.
Tighe told me he had to cancel because his restaurant had received several threatening calls from members of the carriage industry. They had most likely seen the announcement in the e-newsletter I send out every week. Tighe said he was threatened with "riots" ... his words ... and he was afraid for the safety of his employees. He admitted he was worried that someone would throw a brick through his restaurant window. I sympathized with his concerns but, of course, was not happy. But we will survive because we have a lot of support. He did not want to make a report to the police or probably talk to reporters. He just wanted to bow out and make it all go away. This is not the kind of restaurant that is frequented by the drivers. It is on restaurant row and popular with tourists. There is certainly no reason for us to lie about this because this causes us more work as we look for another place. The best defense is always the truth.
Michaeleen - Be a man and stop hiding behind all your many made up names. It is absurd since it is very clear who you are. All you and Abigail can do is to call us liars with nothing to substantiate what you are saying – besides you are not Irish anyway. And Abigail - too bad that you do not like my hair or the fact that I am middle aged - much older and experienced than you. I happen to like my hair very much - I like the color, the texture and the fact that it is thick. yes - I am very happy with it. You have mentioned this before - how pathetic for you. You have called me old and haggard on a You Tube blog. What does age have to do with it anyway? I happen to be proud of every wrinkle I have and would never consider attacking someone based on appearance. Did you think that I was going to cry in front of the mirror because you criticize the way I look; that I am so shallow? It is these kinds of anonymous comments that make you look so bad and so desperate … to attack someone for their age or appearance … as if you were some kind of beauty queen or arbiter of taste. It does show what kind of very cruel person you really are. But finally, Abigail - let's stick to the facts and the issues and leave hair, age and appearance out of it.
Back in the early part of the year, Manhattan Mini Storage received threatening calls from the carriage industry - this time they left their names. The calls were taped and I heard them later. The two men who made the calls - one is an owner/driver at Clinton Park Stables. He spoke with the woman in charge of the advertising campaign. She was very upset and intimidated by them so it worked in that respect. The industry, for those who do not know, wanted to stop the Manhattan Mini Storage ads from running. They did not succeed. The ads ran all over NYC – on telephone kiosks and bill boards. The copy read “Stop cruelty to carriage horses.”
Around the same time, two PETA activists were attacked by a driver while they were at the hack line watching the horses. The driver’s face can be seen just before he pulled a mask over his face. The video is on You Tube. www.youtube.com. Search for “anti carriage activists attacked.”
Personal information for several of us has been put on blogs anonymously, which included where I worked and that I was being investigated for corruption and god knows what else. Abigail was responsible for many of the comments and received a cease and desist letter from my lawyer with a promise of legal action if she continued to accuse me of corruption. It is one thing to say you don't like someone's hair or they are "old" - but quite another to accuse someone of impersonating police (yes that was done by another owner) or of corruption. Someone (again anonymously) said that my interests had something to do with the land that the stables were on. It did not even make sense. If anyone of you think that I would be so stupid as to mix business with this issue, you are dumber than I thought. Any time I put into this issue is on my own time – evenings, days off, weekends, lunchtime, etc.
But the industry continues to try and get me by reporting me to the City Clerk as doing illegal lobbying (NOT – our expenses do not meet the threshold - after all there are no salaries involved) and anything else they can think of. All of the members of this organization are honest and very careful about doing the right thing. The stakes are too high. But the industry will continue to desperately look to make someone look bad. They want to shut us up.
There is another Blinders screening on Monday night. This is an expose of the carriage industry by Donny Moss. Visit www.blindersthemovie.com and look at screenings.
And I would like to remind everyone that all the major and national animal protection organizations support a ban of this industry: The ASPCA, Humane Society of the US; PETA, Friends of Animals, In Defense of Animals, League of Humane Voters, Rational Animal + many other smaller grassroots but vital organizations … representing thousands upon thousands of people. Surely, these organizations know about animals. So you can attack me or Donny Moss or Tony Avella – but there are plenty of others and there will be others coming after us. We will not give up.
We are always putting ourselves above others. The fact remains that these horses do not belong on the streets of NY. Did these people threaten this restaurant, probably so, otherwise they would have been made to feel uncomfortable by the situation. But that doesn't change the fact that these horses face a life time of torture and inhumane treatment. And who are the Irish, the American or whoever have the right to make them suffer.
It is just plain sad that there are those who feel their lives are more valuable than the life of a living, breathing creature who has done nothing to get the treatment that is forced upon them. If you want to take a carriage ride, go do it on a farm. NY is hardly meant for cars to be driven in, not a poor, innocent horse.
DO THE RIGHT THING!
I hope you people know that you are only talking to yourselves.The rest of us regular nyers love seeing the horses as we pass by. They are obviously not abused like you say. they are all pretty chunky if you ask me. You people need to get your priorities straight. Help the people and animals that really need helped. IDIOTS.
Its pretty funny that someone just went to the Village voice blog and copied and pasted all the anti-carriage horse comments from there to here. seems like desperation on their part!
What a bunch of incredible losers the so-called animal rights activists in the City are. Just take a look at the above hate-filled, angry, intolerant postings. Get a life, losers! And Tony Avella is a first-class creep and the most unpopular and disliked Council Member in City Hall. Just ask ANY of his colleagues. Wake up. He's a loser and so are all of you. Again, get a life. Puh-leeze. (and go away, no one cares about your lies and rantings...we never did and we never will).
These "animal rights" folks are a bit confused, if not total liars. I have been by the horses every day for the past 17 years. I live on CPS. I have never, ever seen anything remotely close to abuse. In fact, I think the horses are lovely. The drivers are always feeding, petting, brushing, etc. Why dont these do-gooders go after the real animal abusers. The people who beat and starve their animals;the people who fight dog or cocks. Come on! The people of nyc have heard enough about this and we dont want to get rid of the horses. They are our one link to the past. They are obviously treated well and taken care of. Otherwise the millions upon millions of tourists who see them every year wouldnt take rides. I hope the carriage people can stand up to these nasty folks who want to undemocratically take away their livlihoods. What has this city come to? The fact is that there arent too many new yorkers who know anything much about horses in the first place. I wonder how many of these people in the coalition (or even avella for that matter) know about horses? Probably not many. And they should shut up and move on to protect the children, homeless, mentally ill, and abused animals in this city!
In response to Ms. Baker-Judd (October 4 post), I am one of the millions upon millions of tourists who came, saw, and walked away in disgust. I had considered the ride, as we were on the way to the zoo, but could clearly see that the horses were depressed, kept in filthy conditions (I worked in a stable as a teenager) and injured - particularly their hooves. I now understand why the practice was banned in London, and there is nothing we like more than our links to the past. New Yorkers surely have hearts big enough to 'protect the children, homeless, mentally ill, and abused animals in this city.' The various causes are not mutually exclusive, I hope.
Its funny that the aspca has never issued a violation for filthy stables, injured horses or anything else including cruelty! Another animal rights extremist lying about our horses. You people are painfully seethrough. Depressed? How could they be with months of vacations, excercise, love affection, vet care, etc. Youre another blowhard who would rather spred misinformation than face the truth that these horses are perfectly happy and healthy.
Thanks for that
Thanks for that comment
The ASPACA sayas they don't have the manpower and those stables meet only the minimum legal requirement, nothing more and then just barely