Byron and Karen, I agree with your point about the unrelaibility of the polls, and I guess I didn't make my point very well. What I'm getting at is the prospect that there aren't a dozen independents in the country who will vote for Hillary in an election versus McCain. I don't know how many would vote for Obama over him, but I think it's undeniable that his number far exceeds hers among independents. What happens within the Democratic voting ranks is kind of a moot point if every single registered Republican and Independent voter votes AGAINST her (which they will) She'll get crushed, don't you think?